so i went partying on halloween in my costume.
it was fun, had a great time, all that good stuff.. however, i'm on a peer network thing kind of like myspace but its only for college students, however, anyone who goes to my page can see that i have like 3 pictures of myself in my costume.
so i was wondering, if a witness went onto my page and got those pictures could they use that as ammo to have me disfellowshipped?
Dune,
If you don't want to be df'ed, I would take down those pictures. They could absolutely use that as proof that you're celebrating a "false religious" holiday. Don't make it that easy on them! All it would take is one "zealous" person who feels obligated to turn you in.
i am trying to find any substance to the idea that if you had a birthday celerbration as a jw you could be disfellowshipped?
i have a word document that i made before i handed in my elders book and i have the 2005 wt cd from reexamine.
the elders book on around page 91-94 or 5 lists a heap of things that you could be disfellowshipped for, but celebrating birthdays are not one of them.
It is my understanding that celebrating birthdays is not a df offense. However, if known, you would not be "exemplary" and would lose any "privileges". You'd be removed as an elder/ms/pioneer and probably not allowed to aux pioneer (depending) and depending on the BOE you could may not even carry mikes/read/pray.
But, if you were to poll most JWs, they think it is a df'ing offense, which of course is what the WTS wants them to think. You hit on the wording "mature". That's the WTS way of telling you that you shouldn't do something without actually saying no.
i have read several posts by posters who fervently hope jws will become a mainstream religion, or will become "the truth," or will stop teaching this doctrine, or tweak that one, and "oh, if they would only [fill in the blank].".
such dreaming will, in the end, come to naught.
there are practical reasons why.. (1) the rank and file have no authority over the governing body.. (2) the rank and file do not hold sway over any of the corporate interests.. (3) the vast majority of memorial partakers are not credible in the eyes of the governing body, nor do they have any authority over anything.. (4) the organization shows a willingness to publicly claim beliefs to which jehovah's witnesses do not actually subscribe in order to improve public image (see lisa's interview with j.r. brown), while retaining the same hard-line beliefs in reality.. (5) the governing body is unwilling to relinquish control over the organization, to share authority with underlings (e.g.
Interesting thread. I used to think that it would be possible to reform. However, the more I think about the power structure and the amazing amount of loyalty to the organization displayed by many of the very ones who make grabs for power (the small handful of prominent local elders, COs & DOs and some of the higher up Bethelites) I have come to the conclusion that it can't happen. I do believe some changes will take place but only from legal pressure, not from a honest humble correction. The handling of the whole NGO affair shows me the complete lack of humility and arrogance that the GB displays. Unless that changes, no significant doctrinal changes could happen.
I think the movement will likely be around for some time to come, will grow into even more of a third world religion and will ultimately have to lose much of the publishing business in order to survive. I really don't think money is the motivating factor, I believe the thought that they're Gods chosen people and the ego trip that goes with that is the real issue. So, they can spin all the downsizing but the last thing that could be given up is the control.
i am puzzled, i see a lot of new posts from supposedly active jw's passing out new tract and don't believe it.
i can understand still attending meetings especially if family is still involved.
why not just fade away?
Arthur,
It's as you describe here. Folks will say that its going pretty well but when you press them for details, they'll confess that most of the tracts placed are at not at homes. Really, not at homes are the standard for weekday service anyway which is why you don't see many of the pioneers out on the weekend. Wouldn't want to actually talk to a live person now would we?
Many accept it simply because there is little to no conversation. You tell them we're distributing a worldwide message and here's your personal copy. Then before they even read the title, you are gone.
Actually, I think many enjoy the tract work since it is so easy and folks can get a sense of accomplishment that the territory was covered so quickly.
hey everybody, i had an interesting time pushing a tract that i don't believe in this weekend.
i had to develop my own method of placing it without having to talk about it, since i fear if i was confronted by someone asking "do you people think you're the only true religion", i might break down and tell the person at the door "no, i don't".
the witness at the door with me would scream in terror, and i would be insta-dfed.
I'll take a shot at answering the questions sf has asked.
1)Surely Anitar knows what she speaks of when talking about what jws really go door to door for...you disagree with any of it? Do you agree that the field work is about recruitment, overall...the ultimate goal?
On the surface, it would appear that the field work has the ultimate goal of recruitment. That's what I always believed. However, when you look at the stats, comparing the total hours to total baptized or even more telling total increase in publishers, back out the new publishers that are JW kids and those publishers that have died over the past year, you'll notice there is no increase. So over a billion hours spent with little to no results. If the ultimate goal is recruitment, it would seem another tactic needs to be taken. Yet, that's not happening. I think they care less about actual recruitment since common sense would dictate changes and more about 2 things:
1) continuing collecting funds for books and mags - It makes no difference if the household contributes since the publishers are usually contributing at the time they pick up the mags/books. Of course, we all recognize that the contributions aren't keeping pace thus the layoffs, reduction of Awake, paperback everything. I honestly think they're going to figure out a way to set up a for profit, publishing arm and start charging again. That's the only way the cash flow issues can be stemmed.
2) Keep the congregation busy - This is of equal importance. If you keep the entire organziation extremely busy they feel that they are doing God's will and will be less likely to check up on the validity of the religion. If you ask the average JW what makes them think this is God's organization, they will ALWAYS point to the preaching work. No matter that it doesn't work, the 1 billion hours spent will be used as proof that Jehovah is using the organziation to accomplish His will. If you fill up peoples lives with so many meetings and with field service, you can crowd out other interests that may dilute the person's devotion to the organization. Why else would the Society require monthly time slips to be turned in? They're managing their workforce and using the grunt elders (low level management) to enforce the standards. The COs (middle management) make periodic visits to keep the low level management in line and focused on the busy work.
Do you think the householder should be informed about fraudulent salesmen/ women at their door? That jws are really only there as a sales tool?
I see your point. That if only 1 person in the world comes in as a result of the preaching work then its one too many. I agree. When I go out (only to keep the peace at the present) I make sure that much time is wasted. My presentations are very dry and uninteresting. When folks do take the mags, I rarely follow up. The ones I follow-up with I usually just chit chat with and make no effort to recruit. I don't know what I would do if a study showed up at the hall since its so rare. I believe I would try to help them before they got too deep.
I really think 99.9% of the householders could care less what JWs say and what is being distributed. They likely throw away the mags/tracts as soon as they close the door.
I've avoided the tract so far and will probably not deliver even 1. I think its pretty ironic that the Cano decision and the CA court case both are being in the public eye at the same time this tract that says if a religion tolerates child molestation, then they're false. Perhaps some divine intervention after all?
Is it hyprocritical? Yes. I love my family and need to do this at the moment. There will come a time when I won't. In the meantime, I'm convienced that I can mitigate at worst, eliminate at best any damage done to anyone in the community. I just don't think there are many (maybe any) that listen to a word JWs preach.
well, progress continues.
i no longer directly attack my wife's beliefs... i leave her with questions to ponder and give her research assignments.
if there's one thing the witnesses taught me, it's how to talk to people in a nonthreatening way about their beliefs.
That's great. You could also use the two witness deal if you wife did turn you in. You could deny and there's nothing the BOE could do about it. My guess if that she hasn't turned you in yet, she's probably reachable. Keep us updated.
i am puzzled, i see a lot of new posts from supposedly active jw's passing out new tract and don't believe it.
i can understand still attending meetings especially if family is still involved.
why not just fade away?
I still go out some to keep up appearances but have been very slack. There are a couple of folks that I make RVs on that we basically chit chat. Sometimes I leave mags, many times not. That takes up an hour right there. I've done the fake doorbell trick, etc and try to talk to as few people as possible. I haven't been out with the tract yet and am trying to avoid it. FS is highly ineffective in terms of recruiting in the English speaking territory in the US, so at most, I'm a minor annoyance. I won't be conducting any Bible studies, that's for sure.
<!-- .style2 {font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; } .style3 {font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: #037bd1; } --> farewell, good luck, amensaying goodbye from the wanderer i want to say thank you to those individuals who reached out to .
me during these past two months.
for all the help you have given me and to each other.. time to move on in life i have decided that after nearly 100 written articles that this will.
Richard,
I've really enjoyed your topics. Best wishes and hopefully you'll still contribute from time to time.
the jw doctrine of "no blood" has never affected me, personally.
i knew that either.
jehovah's witnesses were wrong or the rest of the world was wrong.
I read that piece on JW facts and that is probably the most well written piece on the blood doctrine that I've ever seen. It's especially helpful to me since it comes from a JW point of view.
Outstanding job, JW Facts!! I'm in the process of reading the rest of the site. The reasoning is outstanding. Thank you for taking the time to put this together.
dear everyone,.
there was a very interesting item on this morning's bbc breakfast news programme - to do with blood transfusions for dogs.
a new website has been set up, along with an appeal to owners to type and register their pets as potential donors, should the need arise.
Yes, I clearly remember sitting down with my dog several years ago and having to clearly explain that sniffing the genitals of the neighbor's female cocker spaniel was not proper and could stumble others.
Rub a Dub
If your dog sniffed with "greediness" that could be considered loose conduct. Only a JC could determine that. And, if you caught them, you're under obligation to report him!
